[Jsonar] Control surface problem with JSonar 7.1, Sonar 7.02 and Windows Vista SP 1
monkey pusher
monkeypusher69 at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 11 10:36:54 PDT 2008
Brian has apoint about the development of Vista starting in 2002 .. back when it was codenamed longhorn or something like that. And the reason XP followed so soon after ME is partly microsoft was trying to get us to move to a new OS every year or 2 .. Kinda like what apple has managed to do with OS X. However from what i have found in my own research there is alot of good in Vista in with the bad. There are alot of good speed increasing and security functionality in there .. but untill programs are written to take advantage of these features there really isnt nothing microsoft can do about it..(this is kinda why apple keeps such a tight lid on anything thats released on the mac).. And like i have said in the past Cakewalk has been pushing Sonar with vista and has some info on their support pages about getting the two to co exist happily. All that being said Vista is still not with out its flaws like with some of the DRM (digital rights
management) crap thats in there .. but much like XP i am sure with some reasearch things like this can be tweaked and or turned off to improove system performance.
--- On Sat, 10/11/08, Brian Olesen <brian at blindkom.dk> wrote:
> From: Brian Olesen <brian at blindkom.dk>
> Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Control surface problem with JSonar 7.1, Sonar 7.02 and Windows Vista SP 1
> To: "JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar list" <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> Date: Saturday, October 11, 2008, 12:57 PM
> Hi Chris,
> Oh you don't know your history well enough my man. grin
> Ms started the development of Vista in the year 2002.
>
> I agree in most of the other statements you have.
>
> But if we use all microsoft new technologies as they're
> supposed to be used
> things aren't so bad after all.
> We haven't even talked about windows ReadyBoost yet
> that significantly
> speeds up loading times and start up times of applications.
> This feature is not part of xp just to mention one
> performance handle you
> can pull in vista to make it runmore smooth and quick.
>
> But i guess this debate has touched most relevant aspects
> for now.
> The next logical step to take is to ask cakewalk's tech
> support team about
> their professional opinion on this topic.
>
> Best regards
> Brian
> Best regards
> brian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar list"
> <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 6:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Control surface problem with JSonar
> 7.1, Sonar 7.02
> and Windows Vista SP 1
>
>
> You know what?
>
> It sounds like they're comparing plain old xp with 64
> bit vista.
>
> That's not even a real comparison.
>
> i wonder how much performance gain was made by
> going 64 bit and xp64 wasn't even mentioned.
>
> But the wasapi and wave rt stuff sounds intriguing.
>
> if it's not just blow hard junk hype for another
> way to re-envent the wheel, and really works, then it might
> be good.
>
> The serious hard-ware in the business has always
> found a way to by-pass the os and get direct control of the
> hard-ware
> though.
>
> The new asio usb drivers supposedly do this.
>
> Well, I'm lsure the best stuf from vista will
> make it in to windows 7 if it passes everyone's tests.
>
> Hey, and you forgot something very important.
>
> if vista is so great, why has ms abandoned it and gone on
> to window's 7?
>
> They spent 3 service packs on xp and didn't go on
> to something else right after sp1 was out.
>
> But they abandoned milenium because it was junk.
>
> Well, if it looks like a frog and hops, and
> croaks, it's probably a frog 'grin'.
>
> But xp runs well on fairly modest systems as well
> as the new fast stuf, and a good os in so much as
> it's possible to do, there are reasonable limits,
> but a good os should scale itself to hard-ware.
>
> So xp will run on anything from your old p3 to
> the rocket ship quad core stuf out now.
>
> Everything shipping now comes with vista 32 bit
> which suffers from the same bottle neck memory
> constraints 32 bit machines have or rather 32 bit oses.
>
> You have to special order 564 bit vista and even
> if sonar will run on it, many of the plugs we use
> haven't caught up yet.
>
> But it's just a matter of time and they will.
>
> But I think when we finally switch to 64 bit
> it'll be on xp64 or windows 7 64 bit, not vista.
>
> But as usual we're lagging way behind in the
> screen-reader department.
>
> But who knows with system access and nvidia coming on the
> scene,
> they're really basic now, but it's more
> competition, and to get the dollar competition ups the anti
> as it were.
>
>
> At 02:16 AM 10/11/2008, you wrote:
> >Yes, but notice that Noel is talking about matching
> Sonar's performance
> >under Vista to that of XP and not vice versa.
> >There certainly may be some improvements to kernel and
> audio layer in Vista
> >but it does really come down to hardware you use. So in
> my limited
> >understanding of audio programming, it does not sway
> me.
> >Vic
> >
> >Brian Olesen wrote:
> >>Hi chris and others,
> >>I really think you should read this article
> carefully.
> >>Best regards
> >>Brian
> >>On a purely technical level, how does Windows Vista
> work with a leading
> >>pro audio application? A lot of that depends on
> just how much the
> >>developer does to tune their software, and to hook
> into some of the new
> >>audio technologies in the OS.
> >>I wanted to know more about how Cakewalk's
> SONAR 8 DAW was specifically
> >>optimized for Windows Vista. SONAR 7 was already
> out in front with support
> >>for Vista's audio plumbing, but SONAR 8
> promises quite a bit more. With
> >>the help of CTO Noel Borthwick, we were able to go
> through internal
> >>engineering documents and communication and get the
> full story. (Noel, who
> >>has a resume as a Linux programmer as well as
> leading the top Windows
> >>audio developer's technical efforts, has been
> very frank in the past about
> >>Vista, walking us through changes before launch and
> real world experiences
> >>one year later.)
> >>As Noel puts it, this is "more minute detail
> than most sane people would
> >>care to read," but that's just the kind of
> detail we like. If you just
> >>want to know whether your software will work, this
> is overkill. But for
> >>those of you who, like us, are interested in why
> some things work, this is
> >>a good place to start. I also sincerely hope other
> developers on Windows
> >>will start to invest more time in some of these
> details.
> >>If SONAR 8's music features are what interest
> you, see our first look:
> >>SONAR 8 Preview: Instrument Tracks, Beatscape
> Instrument, Transient
> >>Shaper, Enhanced Performance, Other Goodies
> >>I'll repeat my current recommendation on
> Windows. If you've got a system
> >>running XP and you're happy, I'd stick with
> it. But I see no reason to
> >>avoid SP1, unless you have a specifically
> incompatible setup, now that SP1
> >>and driver updates have brought some maturity to
> the platform. I find the
> >>new OS more usable and, with the right software and
> drivers, even more
> >>stable. (This is not what I would have said before
> SP1, especially early
> >>after launch.) In fact, this walk-through with Noel
> demonstrates why, in
> >>the case of a SONAR system, you might be happier
> under Vista, on a point
> >>by point basis. I'll avoid the "versus
> Mac" or "versus Linux" arguments,
> >>as those tend to get more complex and abstract, but
> there's some good
> >>stuff here for those of you with Windows
> experience.
> >>And yes, if any developer would like to do a
> similar tour on the Mac or
> >>Linux, I'm all ears. But just in case you think
> I'm crazy when I say there
> >>is some really robust stuff for audio in Vista, now
> you'll know just what
> >>I mean.
> >>
> >>
> >>CDM Executive Summary
> >>
> >>A Cakewalk SONAR-based studio, with lots of other
> goodies, (CC) "Cowboy"
> >>Ben Alman. And, after all, it's those little
> performance details that make
> >>a big difference in your software studio.
> >>Okay, here's the quick run-down.
> >>SONAR 8 involves improved performance
> optimizations, even relative to
> >>previous versions of SONAR. As far as I know, this
> is unparalleled
> >>progress on the Windows platform; few, if any
> developers are doing this
> >>kind of work. That's not to say you won't
> get good performance out of
> >>other Windows apps under Vista - certainly, I spend
> a lot of time in hosts
> >>like Ableton Live, Kore, and FL Studio on Vista -
> just that SONAR is
> >>leading here. (Developers out there doing similar
> work, we'd love to hear
> >>from you; developers not doing this kind of work, I
> hope this can piqué
> >>your interest and/or point you in the right
> direction, and certainly I
> >>don't think anyone on Windows is trying to
> protect "trade secrets" - the
> >>better this stuff works, the better for everyone.)
> >>The upshot of all of this should mean:
> >>Reduced audio glitches and performance bottlenecks,
> thanks to improvements
> >>to the audio engine itself, as well as the way the
> software makes use of
> >>the kernel (which impacts drivers also using the
> kernel)
> >>Smoother peformance in the UI as you zoom, draw,
> and the like
> >>More efficient performance, through optimization at
> the driver level and
> >>by better supporting Vista's new audio API and
> threading mechanisms
> >>Better support for both WDM (Windows Driver Model)
> and ASIO drivers, and
> >>better performance at lower latency (that's
> always the measure - you can
> >>always reduce latency, the question is whether you
> can maintain reliable
> >>audio performance when you do so)
> >>x64 is now, effectively, ready for prime time
> latency-wise
> >>Now, here's Noel to say that in more
> technically precise terms.
> >>Performance Optimizations
> >>Although every version of SONAR we shipped in the
> past had some degree of
> >>optimization work, SONAR 8 is the first version of
> SONAR to which we
> >>applied the same engineering process to performance
> optimizations as we do
> >>with other more user visible features.
> >>i.e. we established goals, built a specification
> for the optimizations,
> >>split up the work into milestones and tracked the
> progress of these tasks
> >>just as we do for other features. To make testing
> more deterministic, we
> >>devised various internal profiling tools in order
> to track and measure
> >>changes in performance across a variety of hardware
> platforms on XP as
> >>well as Vista.
> >>Systems tested included brand new cutting edge
> platforms from Intel and
> >>AMD as well as earlier generation machines.
> >>We split up this work into the following classes of
> performance
> >>enhancements for SONAR 8:
> >>1. CPU and kernel level optimizations - use less of
> your CPU to do the
> >>same amount of work
> >>2. User Interface optimizations - faster drawing,
> scrolling, zooming
> >>3. Driver level optimizations - more efficient
> access to drivers,
> >>minimizing driver state transitions
> >>4. Vista OS specific optimizations - Better use of
> MMCSS thread
> >>priorities, support for custom MMCSS task profiles,
> new WASAPI support
> >>5. Audio engine optimizations - optimize
> "hotspots" in our bussing,
> >>streaming and mixing code
> >>As a result of all these changes, SONAR 8 has the
> following benefits:
> >>greatly minimized kernel usage. This helps provide
> more "kernel bandwidth"
> >>to drivers who need it the most. More kernel
> bandwidth translates into
> >>less potential for audio glitches.
> >>Lower CPU usage - translates to better performance
> at low latency
> >>More efficient use of audio drivers - esp with ASIO
> drivers
> >>Better performance on Windows Vista esp X64 [64-bit
> Windows]. Many of the
> >>complaints of Vista performance as compared to XP
> have been solved with
> >>SONAR 8. X64 low latency performance should now be
> on par with X86.
> >>Faster application launch
> >>Less flicker in GUI. Track view splitters no longer
> flicker when resizing.
> >>More responsive zoom and scroll with large
> projects. Zooming with wave
> >>files now uses 1/2 the RAM with 24-bit or less
> stereo or mono files used.
> >>Better meter performance.
> >>Improved thread scheduling by insuring threads are
> properly distributed on
> >>processors.
> >>Benchmark: Overall benefits of SONAR 8 as compared
> to SONAR 7
> >>CDM: Will we see these improvements in Project5?
> What about your
> >>instruments, like Rapture and Dimension, running as
> apps (instead of
> >>inside another host)?
> >>Noel: We don't have any firm plans for P5 at
> this time. Our "minihosts"
> >>for instruments don't have these enhancements.
> It's less relevant since
> >>these are far simpler with just a single
> instrument.
> >>Windows Vista - New WASAPI driver mode
> >>
> >>Actually, that's wasaPi, not wasaBi. That said,
> Microsoft - how about
> >>whipping up a new WASAPI roll at the next Windows
> audio summit? Could be a
> >>good way to get developers to bond. Photo (CC)
> Zeetz Jones.
> >>WASAPI (Windows Audio Session API) is the new
> multimedia API to talk to
> >>audio devices in Windows Vista. It represents the
> first real general
> >>purpose audio API from Microsoft in over 15 years,
> since MME from Windows
> >>3.1.
> >>The primary advantages of WASAPI are:
> >>Supports a wide variety of audio devices (any
> device that has a WDM driver
> >>should work in WASAPI mode if Windows can use it in
> exclusive/event mode)
> >>Provides low latency access to the device in WASAPI
> exclusive mode.
> >>(unlike older Microsoft API's like MME or
> DirectSound)
> >>Model that is the closest to the low level WDM
> kernel streaming approach,
> >>while yet providing a higher level of abstraction
> for the device.
> >>Primary audio API for next generation of Windows.
> >>Windows Vista: WaveRT
> >>In WDM mode WaveRT is automatically used internally
> when SONAR detects a
> >>WaveRT capable WDM driver. A [WaveRT] suffix is
> added to the driver name
> >>in this case.
> >>In SONAR 6.2 we first introduced support for
> Vista-specific WaveRT. Direct
> >>WaveRT mode is available in SONAR when you are
> using WDM as a driver mode
> >>and a WaveRT capable device is detected. In Vista
> SP1, Microsoft made some
> >>fundamental changes to WaveRT API's that return
> the device sample
> >>position,
> >>returning a cyclic position rather than a
> monotonically increasing
> >>position. In SONAR 8 WaveRT support has been
> updated and enhanced so that
> >>it works properly with Vista SP1.
> >>CDM: You talk about using a WaveRT driver. Do you
> have to do anything to
> >>switch to WaveRT?
> >>Noel: You don't switch to WaveRT. In WDM
> [Windows Driver Model] mode,
> >>there is no choice - if a driver exposes itself as
> WaveRT, that's the only
> >>mode of communicating with it. The same applies in
> WASAPI except the
> >>difference is that WASAPI itself communicates with
> the driver in WaveRT
> >>mode internally.
> >>CDM: I have to admit, I'm used to working with
> ASIO. How do I know if a
> >>device has a WDM driver?
> >>Noel: Any audio interface that works in Windows
> itself (i.e. if it shows
> >>up as a device in control panel -> sounds and
> audio devices) HAS to have a
> >>WDM driver. Otherwise Windows will not recognise
> it.
> >>I don't know of any interface that provides
> ONLY an ASIO driver. Some
> >>provide minimal WDM drivers that aren't tested
> very well.
> >>Windows Vista: MMCSS task profile support
> >>The Multimedia Class Scheduler Service (MMCSS)
> provides Windows multimedia
> >>programs, including SONAR, with prioritized access
> to CPU resources for
> >>time-sensitive processing.
> >>By default, SONAR uses the MMCSS task profile named
> Pro Audio. If desired,
> >>you can now instruct SONAR to use a custom user
> created MMCSS task
> >>profile.
> >>CDM: Under what circumstances would you switch task
> profiles? What profile
> >>other than Pro Audio would you want to use?
> >>Noel: You can tweak the MMCSS thread settings via a
> custom profile. I have
> >>a profile I tweaked that works marginally better
> than Pro Audio. It's
> >>pretty technical stuff - You will have to read this
> link to get the
> >>details.
> >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684247(VS.85).aspx
> >>Ed.: That's a very technical explanation of a
> very technical topic; for
> >>more resources -
> >>Mark Russinovich tours the enhanced Vista kernel
> >>MMCSS, the Cliff Notes-style version on Wikipedia
> >>Mark Russinovich on the interaction of MMCSS and
> networking
> >>Interesting thread on the Cakewalk forum
> >>More Information
> >>You'll want to see, previously.
> >>Overview of Vista
> >>Adieu, XP; How Vista SP1 is Doing, and Why This OS
> Generation Has Been So
> >>Tough
> >>Vista for Audio, 1 Year Later: Talking OS Plumbing
> with Cakewalk's CTO
> >>Vista for Music + Pro Audio: Exclusive Under the
> Hood with Cakewalk's CTO
> >>Windows Sound Glitches Explained, Plus Glitches and
> the Fight-or-Flight
> >>Response
> >>Compatibility
> >>Cakewalk Vista Musicians' Resource Page, Lots
> of Vista Drivers
> >>Digidesign Talks Latest Windows, Mac Releases,
> Compatibility, Drivers
> >>M-Audio Responds: Update on Driver Situation, New
> Drivers
> >>Helpful utilities
> >>12 Free and Cheap Must-Have Music Utilities for
> Windows
> >>10 Free Non-Musical Windows Software Every Musician
> Should Use
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris
> Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
> >>To: "JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar
> list" <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 2:16 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Control surface problem with
> JSonar 7.1, Sonar 7.02
> >>and Windows Vista SP 1
> >>
> >>>Well, let's hope windows 7 is good like xp
> was and not a pile of junk
> >>>like vista is.
> >>>
> >>>The hardware shift from 98 to xp was worth it
> for what we got, but we're
> >>>painted in a corner with 32 bit os and
> vista's bigger demands but lesser
> >>>performance and lack of drivers and such.
> >>>
> >>>M-audio has held their own well in the industry
> with good reason, my
> >>>friend at clear channel says they use lots and
> lots of delta cards over
> >>>there.
> >>>Being in bed with the pro-tools folks can't
> be a bad thing so they're
> >>>doing something right 'grin'.
> >>>
> >>>What we need is pci express options and to get
> away from pci to take
> >>>advantage of these new machines fully.
> >>>
> >>>Last time we had lots of peripherals and no
> slots for them, now we have
> >>>slots but no peripherals.
> >>>
> >>>Go figure.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>At 03:24 PM 10/10/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>Hi Chris,
> >>>>First you didn't make me offended at
> all.
> >>>>I think it's essential that people
> might have their own opinions intact
> >>>>even after a good debate.
> >>>>
> >>>>But talking about hardware. Many of us, who
> have been in this game for
> >>>>ages are having old, infact very old audio
> hardware, where the missing
> >>>>drivers actually is caused by the vendors,
> who don't want, or are not
> >>>>able to write a compatible driver for old
> geer.
> >>>>For example the m-audio stuff. Many are
> still happy with a good old
> >>>>delta xx card that was produced in the last
> milenium. grin
> >>>>And if you add the fact that m-audio always
> has been pretty conservative
> >>>>with writing new drivers you have the
> classic situation, where a vendor
> >>>>prefer to sell a new card rather then write
> a new driver for their
> >>>>existing millions of customers. But to
> put the intire blame on the
> >>>>opperating system for that reason isn't
> fair at all.
> >>>>It's always the users who will suffer
> here. Because he'll probably both
> >>>>have to buy new hardware to get the full
> power from a new opperating
> >>>>system, and spend lots of money upgrading
> existing software to make it
> >>>>compatible.
> >>>>
> >>>>But you must admit. That if third party
> scripts like jaws scripts don't
> >>>>work out of the box it's likely because
> Jaws isn't compatible with the
> >>>>new operating system as they claim it
> should be. Or the daw software
> >>>>doesn't behave quite as expected.
> >>>>
> >>>>I believe that Sonar for competitive
> reasons in the future will be aimed
> >>>>and optimised for Vista rather then xp.
> >>>>It could be nice to know CakeWalk's
> opinion about this.
> >>>>
> >>>>The real frustrating news is that Microsoft
> is working hard on a quite
> >>>>new operating system called Windows 7 that
> should be intirely rewritten,
> >>>>and once again makes new demands to both
> hardware and software.
> >>>>
> >>>>Best regards
> >>>>Brian
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From:
> "Chris Belle" <cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
> >>>>To: "JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar
> list" <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>>>Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 8:01 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Control surface
> problem with JSonar 7.1, Sonar
> >>>>7.02 and Windows Vista SP 1
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I got my info from some of my students,
> trying to configure things to
> >>>>>work, and them not working, user
> reviews, the DAW vendors I use, and
> >>>>>other relevent info.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Do I run vista here, no I don't.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But you can make a pretty educated
> guess by not stepping in a pile of
> >>>>>dog crap if someone tells you it's
> there 'grin'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I avoided windows millenium for just
> that reason, and then when I broke
> >>>>>down and tried it, I fears were
> realized.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I can't say vista is worthless for
> all situations, or that some
> >>>>>improvements weren't made, and some
> technologies improved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But what god is a litle better
> multi-tasking in some cases, if your
> >>>>>scripts won't work right, or your
> plug-ins mis-behave or in the worst
> >>>>>cases, which is still very common,
> there are no drivers for your
> >>>>>hard-ware or the ones that are in place
> are first generation, crummy
> >>>>>ones.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>My careful and cautious progression
> through technology has served me
> >>>>>well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But I am glad you have found some
> aspects of vista that are to your
> >>>>>liking.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>let's see if they out-weigh the
> headaches.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But the power users here, and the folks
> in the know and who are leading
> >>>>>the pack are staying away from vista
> with good reason when it comes to
> >>>>>serious audio production.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Good luck, and I hope I didn't give
> offense.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>At 11:32 AM 10/10/2008, you wrote:
> >>>>>>Hey chriss,
> >>>>>>have you tried sonar and any other
> audio apps on vista, or are these
> >>>>>>statements based on other facts
> that are verifiable?
> >>>>>>The reason why I ask is that
> I'm pretty amaced by the smooth multi
> >>>>>>tasking abilities of Vista on a
> modern dual core pc, which I haven't
> >>>>>>discovered with xp.
> >>>>>>But as I also stated earlier win
> our adaptive software in this case
> >>>>>>jaws did not work very good with
> vista out of the box.
> >>>>>>We did have to wait for the 9.0 to
> come out.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Brian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From:
> "Chris Belle"
> >>>>>><cb1963 at sbcglobal.net>
> >>>>>>To: "JSonar -- JAWS Scripts
> for Sonar list" <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:12
> PM
> >>>>>>Subject: Re: [Jsonar] Control
> surface problem with JSonar 7.1, Sonar
> >>>>>>7.02 and Windows Vista SP 1
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>No arguments man, just trying
> to keep you from making a costly and
> >>>>>>>frustrating mistake.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Think about it, did you ever
> hear any major vendors not recommend the
> >>>>>>>latest money maker out from ms,
> they get pressured a lot.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>But suit yourself, and when
> things don't work, you'll know why.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>At 03:45 AM 10/10/2008, you
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>hi,
> >>>>>>>>But please let me know. Why
> is it many pc producers are recommending
> >>>>>>>>Vista on their home page?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>any way. I don't wana
> argue about this. Vista is nice in fact very
> >>>>>>>>nice on the net, and even
> gamers enjoy Vista 64 very very much.
> >>>>>>>>I don't remember, if my
> laptop ever has had one single instance of a
> >>>>>>>>blue screen or even a
> spontanious restart. I really doubt it.
> >>>>>>>>Vista servicepack 1 works
> quite nice on this machine.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>But I admit a music daw
> optimised xp home is a very nice expearience
> >>>>>>>>endeed. I use one myself.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Best regards
> >>>>>>>>Brian
> >>>>>>>>----- Original Message
> ----- From: "Dan Rugman"
> >>>>>>>><danrugman at hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>To: "'Phil
> Muir'" <philmuir1 at hotmail.com>;
> "'JSonar -- JAWS Scripts
> >>>>>>>>for Sonar list'"
> <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, October 10,
> 2008 12:17 AM
> >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Jsonar]
> Control surface problem with JSonar 7.1,Sonar
> >>>>>>>>7.02 and Windows Vista SP 1
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Indeed. Those of us
> that see Vista related problems cropping up
> >>>>>>>>>left,
> >>>>>>>>>right and centre begin
> to take a rather brash approach to giving
> >>>>>>>>>out advice.
> >>>>>>>>>As the saying goes
> "what can you do but laugh".
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Seriously though, Vista
> has become a bit of a joke. Most of the
> >>>>>>>>>major
> >>>>>>>>>computer system
> resellers, like Del, sell XP machines because they
> >>>>>>>>>know that
> >>>>>>>>>there are a very large
> number of clients who simply won't accept a
> >>>>>>>>>Vista
> >>>>>>>>>machine. Even more
> revealing is the fact that Microsoft have
> >>>>>>>>>continued
> >>>>>>>>>development on XP.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Vista has caused all
> sorts of problems for all sorts of people and
> >>>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>advice in the music
> business is to avoid Vista like the plague.
> >>>>>>>>>This isn't
> >>>>>>>>>just carping, it's
> based on real and often very grim experiences.
> >>>>>>>>>Admittedly, if
> you're machine is powerful enough then you might be
> >>>>>>>>>able to
> >>>>>>>>>use Vista and think
> that it's acceptable, but that's just because
> >>>>>>>>>your
> >>>>>>>>>machine is able to beat
> Vista into submission. Just think how
> >>>>>>>>>powerful your
> >>>>>>>>>machine will be with XP
> instead.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>To put this in simple
> terms: Vista is famous for the way it slows
> >>>>>>>>>down a
> >>>>>>>>>system, whereas XP
> service pack 3 gives XP systems a 10% increase
> >>>>>>>>>in
> >>>>>>>>>efficiency. In other
> words, XP is faster than Vista and XP service
> >>>>>>>>>pack 3
> >>>>>>>>>is even faster again.
> And if the increased performance isn't
> >>>>>>>>>enough to win
> >>>>>>>>>the argument then the
> fact that XP is more stable than Vista should
> >>>>>>>>>be.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>That's the serious
> advice.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Dan Rugman
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Visit
> www.musicaccess.co.uk
> >>>>>>>>>The new on-line
> resource for visually impaired musicians and home
> >>>>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>>Sibelius Access.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>-----Original
> Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>From:
> jsonar-bounces at jsonar.org [mailto:jsonar-bounces at jsonar.org]
>
> >>>>>>>>>On Behalf
> >>>>>>>>>Of Phil Muir
> >>>>>>>>>Sent: 09 October 2008
> 22:46
> >>>>>>>>>To: Brian Olesen;
> JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar list
> >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Jsonar]
> Control surface problem with JSonar 7.1,Sonar
> >>>>>>>>>7.02 and
> >>>>>>>>>Windows Vista SP 1
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Bryan wrote: What about
> a serious advice?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Phil replied: that was
> it. When will people learn to stay away
> >>>>>>>>>from
> >>>>>>>>>Vista??? smile!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Regards, Phil Muir
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>P J Muir Productions,
> >>>>>>>>>Music And Audio
> Production
> >>>>>>>>>Telephone: US (615)
> 713-2021
> >>>>>>>>>UK+44-1747-821-794
> >>>>>>>>>Mobile: UK
> +44-7968-136-246
> >>>>>>>>>E-mail:
> >>>>>>>>>info at philmuir.com
> >>>>>>>>>URL:
> >>>>>>>>>www.philmuir.com/
> >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message
> -----
> >>>>>>>>>From: "Brian
> Olesen" <brian at blindkom.dk>
> >>>>>>>>>To: "Phil
> Muir" <philmuir1 at hotmail.com>; "JSonar --
> JAWS Scripts
> >>>>>>>>>for Sonar
> >>>>>>>>>list"
> <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, October
> 09, 2008 9:59 PM
> >>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Jsonar]
> Control surface problem with JSonar 7.1,Sonar
> >>>>>>>>>7.02 and
> >>>>>>>>>Windows Vista SP 1
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>no no no.
> >>>>>>>>>>please downgrade to
> windows 3.1. lol
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>What about a
> serious advice?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Brian
> >>>>>>>>>>----- Original
> Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>From: "Phil
> Muir" <philmuir1 at hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>To: "JSonar --
> JAWS Scripts for Sonar list" <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday,
> October 09, 2008 7:28 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re:
> [Jsonar] Control surface problem with JSonar
> >>>>>>>>>>7.1,Sonar
> >>>>>>>>>>7.02 and Windows
> Vista SP 1
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Get a downgrade
> to Windows XP. Your system will run way faster
> >>>>>>>>>>>under
> >>>>>>>>>>>XP anyway and
> everything will work as advertised.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Regards, Phil
> Muir
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>P J Muir
> Productions,
> >>>>>>>>>>>Music And Audio
> Production
> >>>>>>>>>>>Telephone: US
> (615) 713-2021
> >>>>>>>>>>>UK+44-1747-821-794
> >>>>>>>>>>>Mobile: UK
> +44-7968-136-246
> >>>>>>>>>>>E-mail:
> >>>>>>>>>>>info at philmuir.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>URL:
> >>>>>>>>>>>www.philmuir.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original
> Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>From:
> "Chris Nestrud" <ccn at panix.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>To:
> <jsonar at jsonar.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday,
> October 09, 2008 2:45 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>Subject:
> [Jsonar] Control surface problem with JSonar 7.1,Sonar
> >>>>>>>>>>>7.02
> >>>>>>>>>>>and Windows
> Vista SP 1
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Hello list,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I'm
> using JSonar 7.1 for Cakewalk Sonar 7.02 and Windows Vista
> >>>>>>>>>>>>SP 1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>along with
> JFW 9.0.2169. The JSonar control surface is installed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>appears in
> the Controlers/Surfaces dialog. I have run through
> >>>>>>>>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>recommended
> configuration steps in the FAQ. However it looks
> >>>>>>>>>>>>like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>the
> goJSonar object is not successfully created. The
> >>>>>>>>>>>>CreateObject
> >>>>>>>>>>>>statement
> always returns false.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Here's
> what I've already tried:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I removed
> the JSonar control surface and recreated it, making
> >>>>>>>>>>>>sure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>that both
> ports were set to none.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I then
> restarted Sonar. The goJSonar object was not created (the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>object was
> still null immediately after the CreateObject
> >>>>>>>>>>>>statement
> >>>>>>>>>>>>in
> sonarsrfutil.jsl). I next removed the entry for the surface
> >>>>>>>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I had
> created and restarted Sonar. Of course it asked to run the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>setup
> wizard since the surface was not installed. I ran the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>wizard,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>then
> checked in the control surface dialog and found that the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>surface had
> been added by the JSonar scripts. The name was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>"JSonar
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Control
> Surface
> >>>>>>>>>>>>- 1"
> and both ports were set to none. The goJSonar object was
> >>>>>>>>>>>>not
> >>>>>>>>>>>>successfully
> created.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I'd
> appreciate any suggestions you may have, and would be happy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>provide any
> additional information that you think might be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>helpful.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Chris
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Jsonar
> mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>Jsonar mailing
> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>For backing tracks, audio
> restoration, jingles and audio adds,
> >>>>>>>low-priced tutoring and much
> more go to
> >>>>>>>www.affordablestudioservices.com
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>For backing tracks, audio restoration,
> jingles and audio adds,
> >>>>>low-priced tutoring and much more go to
> >>>>>www.affordablestudioservices.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>For backing tracks, audio restoration, jingles
> and audio adds, low-priced
> >>>tutoring and much more go to
> >>>www.affordablestudioservices.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Jsonar mailing list
> >>>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Jsonar mailing list
> >>Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Jsonar mailing list
> >Jsonar at jsonar.org
> >http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
>
>
>
> For backing tracks, audio restoration, jingles
> and audio adds, low-priced tutoring and much more go to
> www.affordablestudioservices.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jsonar mailing list
> Jsonar at jsonar.org
> http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Jsonar mailing list
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