[Jsonar] JSonar and Windows 7.

Sat Feb 20 04:08:59 PST 2010

Hey DJx,
Just a comment, I don't like immulation or vm ware or any of that 
fake stuff, and yes, any low level stuff like our audio stuff is 
gonna break it, that's for casual higher level stuff, so this was 
just a experimental thing to see what could be gotten away with.

I won't spend a lot of time with compatibility mode, why should I 
when xp is still around 'grin'?

But one has to at least look at stuff.

At 02:45 AM 2/20/2010, you wrote:
>Hey Chris, a few things from my research/experience/know how. This is all
>from my own experience; in the last few months I've built quite a few boxes
>for customers, from servers to media centers to daws, all using  some
>variant of windows7 x86 and x64, or in some cases dual boots between xp x86
>and 7 x64
>1. Don't upgrade to 7 from any OS, you *MUST* do a clean/wipe install, on
>any platform. I've actually noticed a difference in performance when this is
>done, and ms even advises this.
>2. If using windows7, do not even think about xp mode, it's really
>microsoft's virtual pc with a taylored version of xp pro on it running under
>windows 7 ultimate's hood. It sometimes works, sometimes doesn't reliably.
>One of my customers owns a graphics/web design studio, using xp mode on 7
>ultimate, none of those programs that natively worked in xp but that didn't
>work in 7x64 would work reliably on the vm (specially stuff with virtual
>printer/whatever drivers like adobe's cs2, flexySign); so for now she's
>using an outdated OS (XPx86) on current technology (I7 860/p55), till she
>can upgrade her software suite... So for some apps xp mode might be fine,
>for office apps, accounting stuff maybe, etc. But for audio work virtual pc
>is a joke, and chances of your interface working with it are slim to none
>(driver support are very slim, and the functionality of the real devices
>from the real machine to the virtual one are iffy in my experience). If you
>really did wanted to try this out, you'd be better off with another virtual
>machine package such as VMWare or sun's Virtual Box (which is the better 1
>of the 2, but needs to be configured using command line since the GUI is
>completely inaccessible). I would personally just forget about that and if I
>really needed to use xp/anything older I'd find other better alternatives. I
>for example have just finished building my audio farm!!!! I got my old xp
>computers running some power hungry plugs and other stuff, while I find
>replacements and alternatives to those extremely rare ones that don't work
>under x64. It's all networked and working without a hitch! No having to mess
>with audio/midi/any cables (other than cat5) at all! Best of all, I can
>dedicate all 2gb's of RAM and most of the processor to whatever soft synth
>and/or effects I need without taxing my main daw at all!
>3. Regarding compatibility, I installed a lot of 32 bit plugs on my 64
>machine, realGuitar, RealStrat, some of Native Instruments older stuff
>(absynth3, fm7, pro-53), Reason, some of Edirol's stuff, some freeware stuff
>like the GVST stuff, all seems to be working with sonar's native wrapper,
>I'm waiting to buy and try out JBridge, it's suppose to be better! Now yes
>there are and will be issues, but here's how I look at it, are there
>alternatives to the stuff that doesn't work? Are there better things that do
>the same and more (while still usable/accessible?) E.G. In my opinion if you
>were hooked on the edirol hyper canvus, just use the tts-1, it seems to be
>the same to me... One project that I've started on my own time is looking
>for native x64 plugs to replace my current x86 ones, not because they don't
>work (for those that do), but just so that I can run an entire x64 system!
>It'll most likely not be possible, but it's worth trying. I mean unless
>musiclab makes an x64 rlg or rls, I'll still run x86 stuff, but then again,
>it still works fine even in x86; the x64 platform is so much better and
>stable though that it's worth it. But even some non esential parts of
>windows use x86 programs, so no big deal there, it'll take a few more
>releases/years to finally move to x64 completely and perhaps an efi based
>system :)...
>We've already mentioned the hsc bug when using stuff that's wrapped with
>BitBridge, but I trust Phil should be able to sort that out once he gets up
>and running on 7 64. We've already got JSonar and hsc along with obviously
>jaws on the 64 platform, so we are better than we were a few years ago!
>Don't let the stuff scare you away lol, if you got an extra machine or some
>time to play, try out 7 x64, you'll see what it's all about!
>4. Regarding system specs, don't run win7 x86 with less than 4gb for audio
>work, and 7 x64 with less than 6 (though I really recommend 8) gb of ram. If
>you do it won't be a fair trial/experience. You could get by with 2gb for
>x86 and 4gb for x64, but for serious audio work and for a system that is
>properly configured, I'd say double the numbers. Another thing you'll find
>is that turning off services on 7 like in xp is no longer the way to
>optimize the system and/or save resources, there are better ways and other
>ways to do it, not to mention though for a lot of systems (unless you really
>want a really strict config), windows7 has made major improvements in
>management, and disabling these services in there like in xp will actually
>mess up/bogg down the system more than it'll help. So if you are tight on
>ram, better to upgrade the ram/hardware, as oppose to going around poking
>and turning off programs that could save you ram but cost you system
>stability... Another thing is that win7 x86 is still limitted by the 4gb
>limit/2gb per process cap. Some people seem to think that for some reason
>win7 has changed this, but it's not so, you're still limited. And yes you
>have stuff like intel's pae and other windows implementations for increasing
>ram, but I don't personally trust the stuff, might as well get going on the
>native x64 platform! Finally, the change in terminology and system
>configuring styles and even methods has changed since the xp days, which
>might make some of you uncomftable, but this is where guys like me (machine
>builders/configurers -  is that even a word?) come in, our job is to do all
>this research and stay on top of all this technology and
>information/application so that people don't have to worry about it and can
>get the latest and greatest and still catch up at their own paste...
>But you are right, change always brings its problems along with the
>benefits, we just all have to way the options and make a choice. And btw,
>though the message has Chris's name on it, I didn't really intend it
>directly to him, but it's more as a general informative post about my win7
>findings; there's way more I could write about, but sleep calls and I have a
>busy day today... :) So Chris don't take it personal man, you know how it
>is. O, and by the way, (this part actually is directed towards you), one
>thing you particularly won't like about having to upgrade to 7x64 (and I
>think even 7x86), you'll have to upgrade to the new delta drivers/control
>panel! You guys seem to hate it and think it's unaccessible, I personally
>have been using it since it came out and I'm doing fine with it, but just
>thought I'd let you know that tidbit lol :)
>
>HTH, D!J!X!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jsonar-bounces at jsonar.org [mailto:jsonar-bounces at jsonar.org] On Behalf
>Of Chris Belle
>Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 1:40 AM
>To: JSonar -- JAWS Scripts for Sonar list
>Subject: Re: [Jsonar] JSonar and Windows 7.
>
>One thing to consider is that many of your plug-ins you might use may not
>work right with 64 bit or even 32 bit w7.
>
>Phil's probably running a pure sonar only system and I don't doubt he's
>getting rocket performance but if you use a hodge podge of stuff, and some
>older stuff because it's very accessible, then you might have problems with
>w7 64.
>
>I'm experimenting with w7 right now, just got a 32 bit version installed,
>and haven't gotten very far with it yet, but I will say this, if your going
>from xp w7 32 is extremely easy to install, but doing the 64 bit install
>might take a clean install from the bot state.
>
>I'm working with deployment tools to work out that senario, but I now have a
>system with 2 xp versions and one w7 32 version, and I'm going to see how
>much of my stuff breaks or works right or not with both 32 and then 64 bit
>versions.
>
>YOu will need plenty of ram for 64 bit, I'd say don't even thing about it
>unless you have 4 gigs or better.
>
>I've got a fast machine and a modest 2 gigs which is fine for xp but I think
>you might stand a better chance of running older stuff under
>w7 32 I'm going to be playing with the xp mode and all that stuff, will
>report back when I know more.
>
>I find using sonar only with just it's plug-ins too limiting, and the whole
>undustry hasn't caught up to 64 bit yet, and of course all the old dxi stuff
>will be orphaned, well, lots to learn and figure out.
>
>
>
>At 04:56 PM 2/19/2010, you wrote:
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Apologies for not following the previous thread on this earlier,
> >however I wasn't expecting to be upgrading to W7 for at least a year.
> >However, hardware issues are necessitating the need for a new computer.
> >I am trying to decide between Windows 7 32bit or 64bit. I will have to
> >upgrade to Sonar 8 anyway, but am wondering if there are any issues
> >with either Sonar, JSonar or Hotspot Clicker under 64Bit? Or am I just
> >better off sticking to a 32Bit system for now.
> >
> >Many thanks,
> >Brett.
> >
> >to
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
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>
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>
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